KTOG Forum - Little piece of plastic fell out...

marshall Grand Poobah Posts: 641 Gender:	Little piece of plastic fell out... 01/14/08 at 07:19:46 As I was cleaning my SUB-2000, and putting it back together, a little piece of plastic fell out. What is it? It doesn't SEEM to be anything vital. But I'd like to know... Click image to enlarge Click image to enlarge
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Wolf357

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Re: Little piece of plastic fell out...
Reply #1 - 01/14/08 at 08:38:10

The piece resembles the small retaining pin (without the coil spring) that keeps the larger bolt pin from being completely removed without deliberately lining it up with the groove in the large pin. Unless, of course, a flaw in the large pin allowed it to be unintentionally pushed beyond the point where the small retaining pin should have stopped it.

If it is this particular piece, you will need to locate the tiny coil spring, which, hopefully, could still be seated where it should be after the small pin popped out the rear of the butt plate.

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scamp_daddy Senior Member If It's worth doing, Do It right. Posts: 368 Gender:	Re: Little piece of plastic fell out... Reply #2 - 01/14/08 at 16:54:57 Hint.... Does your subbie still lock when folded?
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marshall Grand Poobah Posts: 641 Gender:	Re: Little piece of plastic fell out... Reply #3 - 01/14/08 at 17:02:14 Yes, it does. Seems to be just fine. But I will pull out the pin in the stock and look around anyway. When I took the SUB apart the first time, the pin in the stock just came out all the way with out any trouble. When I put it back together, I just shoved it back in. Is that abnormal?
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scamp_daddy Senior Member If It's worth doing, Do It right. Posts: 368 Gender:	Re: Little piece of plastic fell out... Reply #4 - 01/14/08 at 17:15:07 I think so. Part 305 x2 presses onto part 303 and keeps part 307 (which I think that is) in place. with a little pulling pressure the 305's will slip off the 303. Be carefull of the spring and rest of part 307 will fly out and be lost for good. Refer to Kel Tech website Sub 2000 parts list.
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marshall

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Re: Little piece of plastic fell out...
Reply #5 - 01/15/08 at 05:52:26

I found the hole, and the spring was still in the bottom of the hole, so I reinstalled the little pin, and then put the stock pin back in. Here are some photos:

Click image to enlarge

Click image to enlarge

But, I am puzzled. The purpose of the "little pin" seems to be to keep the larger stock pin from rotating in its hole. Why? I can't see the benefit. It seems to be a superfluous part. What difference does it make if the stock pin is prevented from rotating?

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Wolf357

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Re: Little piece of plastic fell out...
Reply #6 - 01/15/08 at 09:02:28

Quote from marshall on 01/15/08 at 05:52:26:

I found the hole, and the spring was still in the bottom of the hole, so I reinstalled the little pin, and then put the stock pin back in. Here are some photos:

But, I am puzzled. The purpose of the "little pin" seems to be to keep the larger stock pin from rotating in its hole. Why? I can't see the benefit. It seems to be a superfluous part. What difference does it make if the stock pin is prevented from rotating?

The purpose of the spring-loaded retaining pin is to prevent the complete removal of the stock/bolt pin, which isn't necessary to simply clean the firearm. I think the idea behind the retaining pin is sound, in that it helps prevent the accidental loss of the essential stock/bolt pin, which only needs to be completely removed for installing certain accessories, or for more advanced maintenance procedures.

Question: With the spring-loaded retaining pin reinstalled, can you still completely remove the stock/bolt pin by only pushing on it?

If you can, something is wrong. I'd first check the stop area at the end of the notch in the stock-bolt pin, which the retaining pin catches to prevent complete removal. It might be flawed, thus preventing the retaining pin from doing its job.

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marshall

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Re: Little piece of plastic fell out...
Reply #7 - 01/15/08 at 09:39:14

As you can see in the pictures above, the hole in which the little spring and little pin sit is open on one side, inside the stock. So when I withdraw the stock pin, it just takes a little bit of a harder push to lever the "little pin" sideways through the length of the hole it sits in. Maybe this hole is not suppose to be open on one side. On the other hand, there is a little protrusion on the little pin that slides up and down in this little hole/groove. Am I supposed to be able to see the spring through the side of the whole, or did Kel-Tec ream out that hole a little too much?

Whatever the answer, the existence of the little pin still seems un-necessary to me. It doesn't contribute to the operation of the SUB-2000. I can take the stock apart and remove the stock pin completely without losing it. It's not exactly tiny!

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scamp_daddy

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Re: Little piece of plastic fell out...
Reply #8 - 01/15/08 at 11:08:47

The pic's helped me to understand what part you were talking about. I have never pushed my stock pin completely through to find that varmit. With out that part acting as a catch for the stock pin I'm afraid you might find out how imporant it is that the stock stop pin be in place. I have never witnessed a blow back action hit something that was only supported on one side and only my shoulder there to stop it. Don't think I like that picture at all. Of coarse that's only a senerio.

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marshall Grand Poobah Posts: 641 Gender:	Re: Little piece of plastic fell out... Reply #9 - 01/15/08 at 13:21:47 I bet Kel-Tec goofed and reamed out this whole a bit too much, so it is not support on one side... Click image to enlarge I'm going to call on the phone and ask.
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marshall

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Re: Little piece of plastic fell out...
Reply #10 - 01/15/08 at 13:33:48

Aha! Well I just got off the phone with Kel-Tec customer service. (Which by the way the connection was quick, and I got someone immediately!) I talked with a guy there. He said:

1. The pin hole being open on the inside of the stock is NORMAL.

2. If for some reason I did not put the little pin in, it would NOT be dangerous to fire the gun. The little pin that hangs onto the stock pin is just a convenience so you don't have to totally remove the stock pin, so you won't lose it.

So, that's that! Good to know! Wolf was right!

Quote:

The purpose of the spring-loaded retaining pin is to prevent the complete removal of the stock/bolt pin, which isn't necessary to simply clean the firearm. I think the idea behind the retaining pin is sound, in that it helps prevent the accidental loss of the essential stock/bolt pin, which only needs to be completely removed for installing certain accessories, or for more advanced maintenance procedures.

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charles1198

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Re: Little piece of plastic fell out...
Reply #11 - 01/17/08 at 05:40:27

I bought my Subbie used several years ago. I lost my "stock pin pin" the first time I cleaned the gun. KT sent me another one, but it never seemed to fit right, and I omitted it. I just check the stock pin every hundred rounds or so. It's never even wiggled a little loose. I suppose if I was going to hike somewhere and needed to carry the gun on a sling, I'd make doubly sure the pin was staying put -- I'd just stick a piece of duct tape from my field-expedient repair kit on it and call it done. Wink

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marshall Grand Poobah Posts: 641 Gender:	Re: Little piece of plastic fell out... Reply #12 - 01/17/08 at 06:38:23 There you go, duck tape can fix anything (OK, bailing wire comes in handy, too!)
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RAT76

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Re: Little piece of plastic fell out...
Reply #13 - 01/18/08 at 08:50:21

I'm not sure on the S2K but on my SUB9 the stock pin has a little notch halfway along the groove that the little retaining pin rides in. This is so you can remove the stock pin. Halfway thru the removal process you twist the stock pin to get the retaining pin out of the groove & let the stock pin slide all the way out. As the retaining pin on the SUB9 is metal not plastic this makes total removal MUCH easier.

Note to self: Check the S2K when you get home.

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Wolf357

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Re: Little piece of plastic fell out...
Reply #14 - 01/18/08 at 13:57:19

Quote from RAT76 on 01/18/08 at 08:50:21:

I'm not sure on the S2K but on my SUB9 the stock pin has a little notch halfway along the groove that the little retaining pin rides in. This is so you can remove the stock pin. Halfway thru the removal process you twist the stock pin to get the retaining pin out of the groove & let the stock pin slide all the way out. As the retaining pin on the SUB9 is metal not plastic this makes total removal MUCH easier.

This is true for the S2K as well.

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