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Question: Carbines---Hi-Point 995 vs. Kel-Tec Sub 2000 9mm
*** This poll has now closed ***


I would not buy a Hi-Point  
  9 (12.6%)
I like the way the Hi-Point feels  
  4 (5.6%)
I think the Hi-Point is more accurate  
  3 (4.2%)
I would buy a Hi-point, it's more cost effective  
  8 (11.2%)
Hi-Point 10 round magazines only is a turn-off  
  14 (19.7%)
Kel-Tec Sub 2000 is a higher quality weapon  
  12 (16.9%)
Interchanging magazines is very important to me  
  8 (11.2%)
I would save for another Sub 2000  
  13 (18.3%)



Total votes: 71
« Created by: huklebry on: 08/29/08 at 10:05:33 »

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Carbines---Hi-Point 995 vs. Kel-Tec Sub 2000 9mm (Read 11261 times)
huklebry
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Carbines---Hi-Point 995 vs. Kel-Tec Sub 2000 9mm
08/29/08 at 10:04:03
 
OK Sub 2000 owners,
I am ready to purchase another carbine, and would like to know your opinions on the Hi-Point 995. After lurking at the Hi-Point forum i found that they are just as enthusiastic about their carbine as we are for the S2K!
Please take a moment and impart with us all your feelings about the two carbines. Posting media reviews contrasting the two would be awesome.
 
After you take the poll, please, explain your answers.
No bashing required or wanted, just the facts.
Thanks!
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Re: Carbines---Hi-Point 995 vs. Kel-Tec Sub 2000 9
Reply #1 - 08/29/08 at 10:33:30
 
OK, I'll jump in first.
 
I voted as follows;
 
10 round mag is a turn off
Switching mags is important
Save up for the Subbie
 
Now for the reasons.  
 
I don't have a Hipoint nor have I shot or even held one.  I'm sure thery are good guns & from what I hear/read have an excellent track record as well as a Service department that may well be better than KT.
 
I do have 3 9mm Subbies, all S&W, as well as a 9mm Marlin carbine that uses the S&W Mags.  Any 9mm carbine I buy, with the exception of a Calico, Feather or some other exotic, would just about have to be S&W compatible.
 
Subbies fold in half.  I've got room in my safe for short guns.  Long guns not so much.
 
Hipoints are butt ugly.  OK, so I'm superficial, what can I say.   Wink
 
As to the accuracy, I don't know about the Hipoint but if I want better accuracy than the Subbie I'll grab the Marlin.  I'd almost bet money that even if the Hipoint  is more accurate than the KelTec the Marlin has both of them beat.
 
The big issue, all kidding aside, is the magazine.
 
edited to add; I just realized this was for S2K owners.  I'm an ex-owner of an S2K.  But I do have four SUB9s.
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Re: Carbines---Hi-Point 995 vs. Kel-Tec Sub 2000 9
Reply #2 - 08/29/08 at 11:22:15
 
I had a HiPoint carbine.The operative word being "HAD" .It shot well enough for 10 rounds then it would not shoot anymore Roll Eyes. Butt ugly,felt like a tupperware product.KT  has mag capicity of up to 30-35 rounds.Folds for convience,can be scoped.etc etc etc     Smiley  Doug
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Re: Carbines---Hi-Point 995 vs. Kel-Tec Sub 2000 9
Reply #3 - 08/29/08 at 11:29:55
 
Mag compatiblity and capacity, and the ability to fold give the S2K the edge over any other pistol caliber carbine, IMHO.
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Re: Carbines---Hi-Point 995 vs. Kel-Tec Sub 2000 9
Reply #4 - 08/29/08 at 11:30:52
 
Save up for another subbie for all the reasons Rat76 gave.  
 
 
 
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Re: Carbines---Hi-Point 995 vs. Kel-Tec Sub 2000 9
Reply #5 - 08/29/08 at 11:48:49
 
Before I got my S2k, I looked at the 995 and the ATI stock.  You can add a lot of cool stuff to it too.  However, the magazine issue swayed me as well as the 995 issues with the ATI stock, bent firing pins, and needing a tool to disassemble the weapon.  If they ever came out with a .45 HP I might look at that, but between the two, go with the S2k.
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Re: Carbines---Hi-Point 995 vs. Kel-Tec Sub 2000 9
Reply #6 - 08/29/08 at 12:44:01
 
I have a 995.  I paid $55 for it from a coworker (That's what I had in my wallet that day).  Ugly doesn't do it justice.  But it has better sights and a scope mount out of the box, and is easily as accurate if not more so than the Sub.   Mine is very reliable, and will go a long time between cleaning if needed.  It is the AK47 of the carbine world as far as reliability in adverse conditions goes.
 
Magazine capacity is way overplayed on some of these things.  The magazines are interchangable with the Hi-point pistols if that's important.  And while they are as ugly as the carbines, they are also very reliable and very accurate.  Most of the people that buy Hi-points are looking for a home defense option they can afford, and that is what the designer intended them for.  
 
Dollar for dollar the Hi-points are one of the best values out there.  I am in fact loosely looking for a .40 S&W version to add to my carbine collection.
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« Last Edit: 08/29/08 at 14:22:53 by 3wbdriver »  

Sub 2000 .40 S&W, G22 mag (Blued) - AKA Q-36 Illudium Explosive Space ModulatOr.
Sub 2000 .40 S&W, G22 mag (Hard Chrome)
Sub9-40 G22
P40 (Blued)
P3AT 2G (Blued)

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Re: Carbines---Hi-Point 995 vs. Kel-Tec Sub 2000 9
Reply #7 - 08/29/08 at 14:29:35
 
Collecting carbines IS just like eating potato chips.  You always NEED/WANT just one more.
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Re: Carbines---Hi-Point 995 vs. Kel-Tec Sub 2000 9
Reply #8 - 08/29/08 at 14:37:48
 
as an owner of all 4 carbines mentioned 2 ea Hi Point ans 2 ea S2Ks, I think you poll is a bit biased. I like both and will readily admit the Hi Points are more accurate. The folding thing with the S2K is novel and handy but not the end of the world useful as far as i am concerned. I have a safe overflowing with long guns and only 2 that would fold. I did adapt my s2ks for scope use and yes could still fold them by removing my scope and mount assy and a reinstaall did not lose zero. I changed out the stock on my 9MM Hi Point to an ati stock, a 30 min job, it is ok but by no means makes it comparable to my CX4 Storm in 45 acp. There is no law in likeing both guns and I do.
   Your poll does not offer enough options so I feel it is next to useless. I chose not to answer it.
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Re: Carbines---Hi-Point 995 vs. Kel-Tec Sub 2000 9
Reply #9 - 08/29/08 at 15:37:05
 
Well, as the resident PCC junkie (I have owned 2 Hi-Point carbines in the past, along with an HK94, UZI carbine, and Cobray carbine, all in 9mm; I currently own 2 KT carbines [SUB-9 & S2K] along with 3 9mm ARs, 2 9mm Camp Carbines, a 9mm Storm, and others  embarrassed) I have to agree with this...
 
Quote from RAT76 on 08/29/08 at 10:33:30:
OK, I'll jump in first.

I voted as follows;

10 round mag is a turn off
Switching mags is important
Save up for the Subbie

...

 
I consider high-capacity magazines a must (absolute deal-breaker) for any firearms platform I will (or even may) be using for anything more than just plinking; I also value magazine interchangeability much more than most do.
 
The two HP carbines I had worked flawlessly and were adequately accurate, and with the ATI stock (not on the market when I had mine) I could even live with the looks, but I just can't get past the magazine issues.  Very personal bias, YMMV as always.  Smiley
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Re: Carbines---Hi-Point 995 vs. Kel-Tec Sub 2000 9
Reply #10 - 08/29/08 at 16:33:43
 
This may stir up a lot of folks but I assure you if I have a choice and have to deal with SHTF situation I will not be using a pistol cartridge carbine. I personally feel doing that gives up too much power to a potential enemy. Center fire rifles get the nod there, I'll put up with the little bit of extra weight and I will have the magazine capacity. Pistol carbines if I were to use one would be 10MM or .44 mag nothing smaller and that is just my personal choice not a recommendation.
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Re: Carbines---Hi-Point 995 vs. Kel-Tec Sub 2000 9
Reply #11 - 08/29/08 at 16:59:12
 
Quote:
I consider high-capacity magazines a must (absolute deal-breaker) for any firearms platform I will (or even may) be using for anything more than just plinking; I also value magazine interchangeability much more than most do.

The two HP carbines I had worked flawlessly and were adequately accurate, and with the ATI stock (not on the market when I had mine) I could even live with the looks, but I just can't get past the magazine issues.  Very personal bias, YMMV as always.  Smiley

 
Well, there goes the 1911 platform.  Headed for lo-cap mag oblivion......................... Cheesy Grin Roll Eyes
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Sub 2000 .40 S&W, G22 mag (Blued) - AKA Q-36 Illudium Explosive Space ModulatOr.
Sub 2000 .40 S&W, G22 mag (Hard Chrome)
Sub9-40 G22
P40 (Blued)
P3AT 2G (Blued)

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Re: Carbines---Hi-Point 995 vs. Kel-Tec Sub 2000 9
Reply #12 - 08/29/08 at 17:29:53
 
I have both the 9mm and the .40 cal. Hi-Point carbines. I have one KT S2K which is in .40. I also have a CX4 Storm carbine in .40. I like them all. But I had to compare them.  
 
So, about 3 years ago I took all 3 .40's, KT, Beretta, and Hi-Point to the range. Granted my test was by no means scientific, but I rated the carbines as follows for feel, handling and accuracy:
 
Beretta CX4 was the most accurate
Hi-Point 4095 was a close second in accuracy, but felt and handled better.
KT Sub came in third for accuracy and was not as comfortable to handle or shoot.
 
I should qualify a little by saying that I love my Sub. However it just isn't as comfortable to shoot or quite as accurate. That was before I added the Tacticool buffers, bolt tube cover and buttpad, which makes it a lot more comfy.  
 
All three carbines were fairly close in accuracy, not enough difference really at 50 yds to matter much. The Hi-Point is ugly, but I kinda like the Planet of the Apes look. I did put the prettier ATI stock on the 995, but I'm glad the 4095 is still in original ugly configuration.  
 
As much as I like my Sub, I'd still vote for the Hi-Point to answer the posted question truthfully. IMO the Hi-Point guns are some of the very best values out there, with a warranty that is second to none, even KT.  
 
The mag capacity is not an issue with me, as my Sub is a rare Beretta grip and only holds 11 rounds.  
 
Knowing what I know now from experience, if I had to chose and could only afford one of the two, I'd have to choose the Hi-Point.  
 
Remember guys, I AM a KT fan with more KT weapons in my collection than any other kind.  Cool
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Re: Carbines---Hi-Point 995 vs. Kel-Tec Sub 2000 9
Reply #13 - 08/29/08 at 18:26:31
 
I pride myself on valuing function over appearance, but I can't get past the look of the Hi-Point carbines. Aesthetics are very subjective. If the appearance doesn't bother you, then no problem. The Hi-Points are heavier, and I think they have a clunky feel but others probably perceive the same thing as the feel of solid reliability or quality. I'm an engineer and the Hi-Point looks low-tech to me, ignoring the aesthetics I mentioned earlier and looking more at the design and machining. I like the light weight of the SUB-2000. The S2K ergonomics do leave a lot to be desired. The straight bolt tube is an artifact of the S2K's ability to fold. To me, it's worth it. I love the little folding S2K. To my eye, the Hi-Point is ugly, but the S2K is "so ugly it's cute". Again, aesthetics vary greatly. YMMV.
 
I have a notebook PC carrying case. I put my PLR-16 in the main compartment, and the 9mm and .40 S&W subbies in another divided compartment, and a lot of magazines in an exterior pocket. I could probably carry six or eight SUB-2000s in a notebook PC carrying case. I think I'll test that theory at the Republican National Convention next week... not!
 
The subbies are remarkably portable when folded, and that opens a lot of possibilities where a pistol carbine is appropriate. You can take a SUB-2000 places a Hi-Point could never go - backpack, canoe, kayak, under a car seat, inside a winter coat, in a book bag in the summer, the aforementioned notebook PC carrying case, etc. To many people, that portability isn't important, but I like it. To me, a pistol carbine is an in between gun, when a pistol is too small and a rifle is too large. The folded subbie isn't much larger or heavier than a pistol, but the longer barrel delivers more energy and the longer sight radius makes it more accurate. If I was going to carry a big heavy Hi-Point, I'd get a rifle caliber rifle. In fact, I'd probably opt for an SU-16C and still have the ability to fold it!
 
Mag compatibility was apparently a big part of the value that Kel-Tec saw for the S2K, but it doesn't appeal to me as much. However, I greatly appreciate the ability to buy inexpensive high quality Glock mags instead of some expensive, proprietary, low capacity mags. Being able to use Glock mags in a Glock is a little bonus for me.
 
Basically, if you like the light weight and small size when folded, and can tolerate crooking your head sideways to shoot it, the S2K is a great little pistol carbine. If the look, feel, and weight of the Hi-Point don't bother you, it's a good choice. Like most things, what works best for you is determined by what you like and what you need. Choice is good.
 
I hope you posted a similar poll at the Hi-Point forum. No doubt they'll vote as heavily in favor of the Hi-Point.
 
Disclaimer: I'm cuckoo for Kel-Tecs.
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Re: Carbines---Hi-Point 995 vs. Kel-Tec Sub 2000 9
Reply #14 - 08/29/08 at 19:11:55
 
I like my S2K don't get me wrong, I think it is a great little gun. I just don't like giving up firepower in a bad situation. I personally would feel just as comfortable or perhaps more so with a 10MM revolver or my G20 with a 6 " barrel as i would with an S2K. I am thinking quick accurate fire power. I do think the folding thing with the S2K is great. I did not buy mine because it folded, that is just a plus. I am aggrivated that KelTec did such a poor job by not providing a good scope mount. S2Ks are fun guns,I have had no problems with mine at all . I wouldn't want to give mine up.
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