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5+ MOA from Monarch/PPU ammunition (Read 1087 times)
judcargile
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Re: 5+ MOA from Monarch/PPU ammunition
Reply #15 - 11/05/09 at 08:13:29
 
Firstly, my posted informed opinion on this thread is meant for the general audience. Funny how MY RFB is the only sub moa unit to date!!! Huh I have been trained to let THE RIFLE do the work and have a dim intimation as to how to maximize the rifle's potential.
 
As far as the information posted from other RFB owners, mine seems to be the only one on a bipod and one of a couple who have provided appropriate ammo. Most of the optics people on this forum have gone with simply are great for a battle rifle but, do not have adequate magnification to be able to get consistent, tight groups.
 
Heart beat technically will effect repeatability but, grouping at 100 yrds?!?!  You just showed your experience and I will refuse to converse further with with you lest I show myself foolish!
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ormandj
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Re: 5+ MOA from Monarch/PPU ammunition
Reply #16 - 11/05/09 at 11:47:00
 
Quote from judcargile on 11/05/09 at 08:13:29:
Firstly, my posted informed opinion on this thread is meant for the general audience. Funny how MY RFB is the only sub moa unit to date!!! Huh I have been trained to let THE RIFLE do the work and have a dim intimation as to how to maximize the rifle's potential.

As far as the information posted from other RFB owners, mine seems to be the only one on a bipod and one of a couple who have provided appropriate ammo. Most of the optics people on this forum have gone with simply are great for a battle rifle but, do not have adequate magnification to be able to get consistent, tight groups.

Heart beat technically will effect repeatability but, grouping at 100 yrds?!?!  You just showed your experience and I will refuse to converse further with with you lest I show myself foolish!

 
That was my joke, cheek weld - yeah - I can see it being a factor at 100 yds - heart beat - that's the difference between shooting a 1/4 MOA and 1/2 MOA group. I followed up in the other thread regarding such things, but keep in mind - I'd love to see my RFB be sub-moa all day, too. Maybe I can get there with reloads - time will tell - but currently it is not, even with 168gr Federal Match (much like the 168 gr Privi, just far more expensive.  Tongue)
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thomaspatrickhenry
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Re: 5+ MOA from Monarch/PPU ammunition
Reply #17 - 11/05/09 at 16:47:26
 
I have no doubt that my RFB #T0037 is MOA;  I, however, am not MOA!!
 
 
Probably every firearm I have from my flintlock to my RFB can outshoot me anyday!!
 
TPH
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stymie
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Re: 5+ MOA from Monarch/PPU ammunition
Reply #18 - 11/05/09 at 19:14:25
 
Quote from judcargile on 11/05/09 at 08:13:29:
Funny how MY RFB is the only sub moa unit to date!!! Huh

 
ONLY ONE... ? Wink
 
Check this out (Fed .308m at 100m/shouldered & slung)
 

Click image to enlarge

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ormandj
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Re: 5+ MOA from Monarch/PPU ammunition
Reply #19 - 11/05/09 at 20:08:58
 
Quote from stymie on 11/05/09 at 19:14:25:
Quote from judcargile on 11/05/09 at 08:13:29:
Funny how MY RFB is the only sub moa unit to date!!! Huh


ONLY ONE... ? Wink

Check this out (Fed .308m at 100m/shouldered & slung)

http://i42.tinypic.com/5ofl1u.jpg

 
I was waiting for you to respond. Wink So far I've only seen two people claiming better than MOA accuracy. Don't you shoot factory ammunition, too, Stymie? Nice group!
 
I've got 10#s of Varget, 4000 primers, and a bunch of different bullets inbound, currently. We'll see what this rifle can do with hand loads tailored to the rifle. I shot some Privi 168gr a few days ago, it was near-moa, and likely would have done a 5 shot group at MOA if I tried long enough. I went through 40 rounds and hadn't gotten sub-MOA (was just a bit above MOA) so I called it quits.
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stymie
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Re: 5+ MOA from Monarch/PPU ammunition
Reply #20 - 11/05/09 at 22:56:47
 
Unfortunately, I don't have the time to reload so I have to rely on factory ammo like match grade Federal & Lapua. I've found the Winchester Q3130 147gr ball to be more than adequate for plinking & fairly reasonably priced all things considered.
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ormandj
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Re: 5+ MOA from Monarch/PPU ammunition
Reply #21 - 11/05/09 at 23:36:17
 
Quote from stymie on 11/05/09 at 22:56:47:
Unfortunately, I don't have the time to reload so I have to rely on factory ammo like match grade Federal & Lapua. I've found the Winchester Q3130 147gr ball to be more than adequate for plinking & fairly reasonably priced all things considered.

 
That's the white box stuff, right? I've noticed it's a lot better than the other 'cheap' plinking rounds, too. What's the most accurate factory load you've found (in terms of consistency)? Shot any hunting ammunition - and have any favorites there?
 
I shot some Nosler Custom 165gr Accubond ammo, was about 2MOA spread on average, not bad at all for factory hunting ammo - but pricey!
 
I'm going to load up some 168gr Barnes TTSX and see how they perform - cost per round will be roughly $0.84 - and this is a super-premium hunting bullet, and using *current prices I can actually obtain primers and powder at*:
 
50 Barnes TTSX - $35.08 - $0.7016/rd
1000 CCI #200 - $25.21 - $0.02521/rd
8# (56000gr, 45gr/rd, 1244.4 rds per can) Varget - $139.51 - $0.112146302/rd
 
Price per round without bullet: $0.137356302
Price per round: $0.83895302
 
Here's some data on other loadings using target/match bullets (Berger VLD/SMK, both 168gr):
 
100 Berger 168gr Target VLD - $36.76 - $0.3676/rd
1000 CCI #200 - $25.21 - $0.02521/rd
8# (56000gr, 45gr/rd, 1244.4 rds per can) Varget - $139.51 - $0.112146302/rd
 
Price per round without bullet: $0.137356302
Price per round: $0.504956302
 
500 Sierra 168gr Match King - $128.88 - $0.25776/rd
1000 CCI #200 - $25.21 - $0.02521/rd
8# (56000gr, 45gr/rd, 1244.4 rds per can) Varget - $139.51 - $0.112146302/rd
 
Price per round without bullet: $0.137356302
Price per round: $0.395116302
 
$0.40c/rd to shoot ammunition more accurate than Federal Premium Gold Medal (.308/168gr). One of the better deals I've seen on that is $1.75495/rd. I can make premium hunting ammunition that shoots just as accurately/more so for 47% of that, and target ammunition with the same exact bullet for 22% of that cost. That's why I reload - I can shoot more on the same $ (I don't save money.. too fun to shoot!)
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stymie
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Re: 5+ MOA from Monarch/PPU ammunition
Reply #22 - 11/06/09 at 11:41:15
 
Depends on what you mean by HUNTING ammo... Wink
 
Even with all the MALL NINJA hype, the EXTREME SHOCK 168gr tungsten powder filled projos are impressively devastating & almost as accurate as the Fed .308m. They start with LAPUA brass & primers & VV powder, so what's not to love? Oh, yeah... $2.50/rd+
 
The 168gr HORNADY TAP & WINCHESTER SUPREME 168gr Silvertips have been excellent performers in my RFB as well & a bit more reasonably priced. Perhaps you could base your reloads on those specs.
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ormandj
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Re: 5+ MOA from Monarch/PPU ammunition
Reply #23 - 11/06/09 at 12:34:54
 
Quote from stymie on 11/06/09 at 11:41:15:
Depends on what you mean by HUNTING ammo... Wink

Even with all the MALL NINJA hype, the EXTREME SHOCK 168gr tungsten powder filled projos are impressively devastating & almost as accurate as the Fed .308m. They start with LAPUA brass & primers & VV powder, so what's not to love? Oh, yeah... $2.50/rd+

The 168gr HORNADY TAP & WINCHESTER SUPREME 168gr Silvertips have been excellent performers in my RFB as well & a bit more reasonably priced. Perhaps you could base your reloads on those specs.

 
50 Nosler 168gr Ballistic Silvertip (same as the Winchester ammo) - $20.07 - $0.4014/rd
1000 CCI #200 - $25.21 - $0.02521/rd
8# (56000gr, 45gr/rd, 1244.4 rds per can) Varget - $139.51 - $0.112146302/rd
 
Price per round without bullet: $0.137356302
Price per round: $0.538756302
 
Much less expensive than the $35-40/box of 20 for the Winchester. Wink (Works out to about $10.78 a box of 20 when hand loaded). Keep in mind these prices do not include brass, as I have a ton, but even if they did - it's still significantly less expensive. 100 ct .308 brass of Lapua manufacture is $70.54 ($0.7054/rd) which works out to $1.244156302/rd with all new components for the Winchester Ballistic Silvertip equivalent cartridge, but more accurate and loaded to your needs. Smiley That's about $24.89/box of 20 for the first shooting, then down to $10.78 for the next 7-10 uses of the brass.
 
TAP bullets are difficult/impossible to come by, and extreme shock doesn't seem any better than any of the other ballistic tip designs when terminal performance is measured. I prefer bullets that mushroom, keep the majority of their weight, and penetrate well. Ballistic tips fragment, shock a lot of meat (ruin), and sometimes have issues with penetration at close range/high velocity, or when encountering multiple bones. Any of these will kill a deer/hog/whatever with a good shot. I'd stick with more penetration for game, less penetration (but more explosive fragmentation) for self defense.
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stymie
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Re: 5+ MOA from Monarch/PPU ammunition
Reply #24 - 11/06/09 at 16:25:47
 
My ONLY application for EXTREME SHOCK is Homeland Security, NOT game animals! Wink I was looking for a projo that REDUCES the chances of collateral damage & overpenetration. Since the RFB is my primary weapon around the house when equipped with a "hearing safe" suppressor & day/night optics, I felt that it was appropriate for that duty. It's not like it's range ammo for plinking or Bambi blasting. Cheesy
 
That's what I meant by "HUNTING"...
 Shocked
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stymie
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Re: 5+ MOA from Monarch/PPU ammunition
Reply #25 - 11/06/09 at 16:41:07
 
While you save some money reloading, you also have to take into consideration what YOUR time is worth, if you even have the time, space or attention span for the hobby. To make it worthwhile, you're going to have to do a fair amount of shooting just to break even for the investment in good gear. Not that that's a bad thing! Wink
 
It seems that when I read warranties from some firearms & suppressor manufacturers, the use of reloaded ammo often VOIDS that guaranty. ...just a thought!
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ormandj
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Re: 5+ MOA from Monarch/PPU ammunition
Reply #26 - 11/07/09 at 00:45:50
 
Quote from stymie on 11/06/09 at 16:41:07:
While you save some money reloading, you also have to take into consideration what YOUR time is worth, if you even have the time, space or attention span for the hobby. To make it worthwhile, you're going to have to do a fair amount of shooting just to break even for the investment in good gear. Not that that's a bad thing! Wink

It seems that when I read warranties from some firearms & suppressor manufacturers, the use of reloaded ammo often VOIDS that guaranty. ...just a thought!

 
You'll never save money. You'll just shoot more. Also, I do *not* take into consideration what my time is worth, as reloading is enjoyable to me. I have a few progressive presses that will pump out ammunition at 500rds/hour if I really want to 'go', and still be more accurate than factory ammunition. Case prep takes the longest with rifle ammunition in semi-automatics, but with the proper equipment, even this doesn't need to tie up much time. Personally, I prefer the enjoyment of making each and every cartridge as perfect as can be. Check out the Forster Co-Ax if you want to see a single stage that'll put things together like you've never seen (measure runout, for instance). For zombie preparation, go progressive, and check your powder drop from time to time. The Hornady LnL is a good investment, especially if you shoot pistol, and you can easily do 300rds/hour if you take the time to devise a solid method you follow.
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