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RFB kaboom! (Read 2176 times)
Liberty4Ever
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Re: RFB kaboom!
Reply #15 - 07/09/10 at 19:57:59
 
Quote from subasemg on 07/09/10 at 19:37:55:

I wonder if they'll need to switch to stainless steel for gas assembly bits?


Probably not, but it'd be a nice little upgrade if they did!
 
I still think it'd be great after all of the little details were worked out to make a much higher priced deluxe version - an all stainless and polymer Carbine RFB, with an exotic black ceramic coating like Tungsten DLC on the stainless parts.
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Re: RFB kaboom!
Reply #16 - 07/26/10 at 09:18:48
 
Another one An actual "kaboom":
 
http://www.ak47.net/forums/topic.html?b=6&f=43&t=320259
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« Last Edit: 07/31/10 at 09:39:47 by Burt_Gummer »  

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subasemg
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Re: RFB kaboom!
Reply #17 - 07/26/10 at 10:48:32
 
It seems to me this is another annealing, heat treatment problem. Same thing that happened with the casings tube. They switched to stainless for that, seems to me they'll need to switch to stainless for this one too.  
 
They need to reign in their dodgy outsourcing.
 
Maybe instead of annealing parts that are stamped or machined for more durability, they can just skip that stage and just give it a nitride/tennifer coating. This will get rid of the heat treatment problems as well as make the gun rustproof. (and make the chroming of the gas tube not necessary) Could be cheaper in the long run.
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« Last Edit: 07/26/10 at 17:31:50 by subasemg »  
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Re: RFB kaboom!
Reply #18 - 07/30/10 at 18:21:55
 
as others have mentioned...This is not a kaboom.
 
This is a gas head failure....very different from a kaboom.
 
 
 
Now the one Burt linked to seems like a true kaboom, since the mag base plate blew out, which suggests the cartridge actually blew....which is a real "kaboom".
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wheelguy
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Re: RFB kaboom!
Reply #19 - 07/30/10 at 20:24:49
 
Yep, Burt's reference sounds more like a kaboom. Still, the RFB contained whatever it was - just as it was designed to do. After reading that thread, until we know more, I'm agreeing with those saying it was most likely bad ammo (weak primer, case head, etc).
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subasemg
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Re: RFB kaboom!
Reply #20 - 07/30/10 at 21:01:34
 
Pretty impressive if the rifle continues to operate after the ammo blowup, too bad the guy it happened to wasn't knowledgeable enough to fix the problem himself.
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Re: RFB kaboom!
Reply #21 - 07/31/10 at 15:43:16
 
Quote from ktwm on 07/30/10 at 18:21:55:
as others have mentioned...This is not a kaboom.

This is a gas head failure....very different from a kaboom.



Now the one Burt linked to seems like a true kaboom, since the mag base plate blew out, which suggests the cartridge actually blew....which is a real "kaboom".

 
I would still argue that the second one doesn't necessarily even qualify as a kaboom either, since there's no evidence that the weapon was actually damaged in any way (magazine notwithstanding).  Blowing out a primer can and will cause the exact same effect, so until it's been inspected by someone with experience on the system, I'm extremely hesitant to say that it was indeed a "kaboom".
 
Quote:
Maybe instead of annealing parts that are stamped or machined for more durability, they can just skip that stage and just give it a nitride/tennifer coating. This will get rid of the heat treatment problems as well as make the gun rustproof. (and make the chroming of the gas tube not necessary) Could be cheaper in the long run.

 
Tennifer and heat treating are two different processed that are used to produce two different objectives, to the best of my understanding.  ktwm could undoubtedly give a better explanation, but I don't think that nitriding is going to fix any problems there.
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Re: RFB kaboom!
Reply #22 - 07/31/10 at 18:15:57
 
Quote from virtual-rjhauser on 06/28/10 at 11:14:43:
IMO, to ME, MYSELF, AND I, it would appear that the RFB DID WHAT IT WAS DESIGNED TO, AND HELD TOGETHER QUITE WELL GIVEN A CATASTROPHIC FAILURE.

I would NOT classify it as a kaboom, and also would have no problems taking that firearm apart and calling KT to get it back to them for diagnosis and evaluation.

I am the first critic of a high end firearm giving way, but it did do what it was designed to.  

The design appears to be sound.  

 
OK, let me see, we have 2 INSTANCES of CATASTROPHIC FAILURES, and THE RIFLES ARE HOLDING TOGETHER
 
I am far from a KT fanboy, and refuse to drink the kool aid, but I think they may have something right here in a solid design.......2 catastrophic failures and the rifles are holding together.
 
lets see what happens when he gets his rifle back....and what the failures are determined to be.
 
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Re: RFB kaboom!
Reply #23 - 07/31/10 at 23:28:37
 
Quote from Wes_Janson on 07/31/10 at 15:43:16:
Quote from ktwm on 07/30/10 at 18:21:55:
as others have mentioned...This is not a kaboom.

This is a gas head failure....very different from a kaboom.



Now the one Burt linked to seems like a true kaboom, since the mag base plate blew out, which suggests the cartridge actually blew....which is a real "kaboom".


I would still argue that the second one doesn't necessarily even qualify as a kaboom either, since there's no evidence that the weapon was actually damaged in any way (magazine notwithstanding).  Blowing out a primer can and will cause the exact same effect, so until it's been inspected by someone with experience on the system, I'm extremely hesitant to say that it was indeed a "kaboom".

Quote:
Maybe instead of annealing parts that are stamped or machined for more durability, they can just skip that stage and just give it a nitride/tennifer coating. This will get rid of the heat treatment problems as well as make the gun rustproof. (and make the chroming of the gas tube not necessary) Could be cheaper in the long run.


Tennifer and heat treating are two different processed that are used to produce two different objectives, to the best of my understanding.  ktwm could undoubtedly give a better explanation, but I don't think that nitriding is going to fix any problems there.

 
Tennifer/Melonite/nitriding wouldn't have prevented these issues, they make the top few microns more brittle, not less.
 
As to issue #2, I agree with Wes, the second one sounds like a case head separation, blown primer, or something of this nature. The posters are not being forthcoming with the ammunition being used (that I've seen, maybe I missed it), and that's a red flag to me. Either way, with the gas piston design of the RFB, a magazine floorplate blowing out means gas leaked from the chamber, the end.
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subasemg
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Re: RFB kaboom!
Reply #24 - 08/01/10 at 21:00:47
 
But considering they are using machined steel in their gas port parts, I'm confused as to why they would need to heat treat the parts for more strength. I suspect they anneal these parts as a form of case hardening to act as a form of chroming or surface treatment for greater durability. Just like they chrome the gas tube. That's why I suggested tennifer.
 
It's just an uneducated guess on my part, so I'm no doubt wrong.
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subasemg
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Re: RFB kaboom!
Reply #25 - 08/03/10 at 21:57:05
 
Look at this video.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5937681496067804901#
 
The RFB is overbuilt. A polymer butt stock will only crack not shatter if there is a kaboom , since there is a long thick rectangular piece of steel running along most of the weapon, it will force gas downward. In anycase for the CFB it would make more sense since the RFB is already quite light for a .308 with 18 inch barrel.
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